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A fact from 1356 Basel earthquake appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 January 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that 2006 was the 650th anniversary of the 1356 Basel earthquake, the most significant earthquake to have occurred in
Central Europe in recorded history?
This article has been edited since the translation finished. Please see
this version for the text as it appeared immediately after translation.
Carcharoth 23:09, 27 December 2006 (UTC)reply
Now proofread.
Carcharoth 18:50, 31 December 2006 (UTC)reply
Specific Google searches show 331 hits for "1356 Basel earthquake"
[1], 607 for "Basel earthquake" (which also includes the 331 hits for "1356 Basel earthquake", so that is about 276 hits for pages with "Basel earthquake" but not "1356 Basel earthquake")
[2], 43 for "Basel 1356 earthquake"
[3], and 18 for "Basel earthquake of 1356"
[4], and 14 for "Great Basel Earthquake"
[5].
Carcharoth 23:34, 27 December 2006 (UTC)reply
I don't see any reason to move, unless there have been other earthquakes in Basel; why should the reader or linker be expected to remember the year?
SeptentrionalisPMAnderson 19:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)reply
I see that the discussion there involves how to link. I see nothing wrong with linking "1356
Basel earthquake", and doing so allows us the flexibility of writing "
Basel earthquake of 1356," or even, in a suitable context, "The year after her marriage, the
Basel earthquake..." In a parallel case,
Alexander Cruden links "The Correctors Earnest Address to the Inhabitants of Great Britain, published in 1756, was occasioned by the
earthquake at Lisbon".
SeptentrionalisPMAnderson 19:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)reply
Your last example of linking uses piping. Why not do that for all the examples? Here is the example with and without piping:
Without piping - "1356
Basel earthquake", and doing so allows us the flexibility of writing "
Basel earthquake of 1356," or even, in a suitable context, "The year after her marriage, the
Basel earthquake..." In a parallel case,
Alexander Cruden links "The Correctors Earnest Address to the Inhabitants of Great Britain, published in 1756, was occasioned by the
earthquake at Lisbon".
With piping - "1356
Basel earthquake", and doing so allows us the flexibility of writing "
Basel earthquake of 1356," or even, in a suitable context, "The year after her marriage, the
Basel earthquake..." In a parallel case,
Alexander Cruden links "The Correctors Earnest Address to the Inhabitants of Great Britain, published in 1756, was occasioned by the
earthquake at Lisbon".
Piping solves most problems, and articles should be at the most common name used to refer to the event, not the name that is most convenient for Wikipedia editors. In any case, redirects deal with both the problems of readers and editors typing in 'Basel earthquake'.
Carcharoth 22:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)reply
Piping is a (small) inconvenience; as at Cruden, which pipes because the phrasing
1755 Lisbon earthquake would be unnatural. We should not force the choice between inconvenience and artificiality.
SeptentrionalisPMAnderson 18:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)reply
So you agree that
1356 Basel earthquake is the right format, like
1755 Lisbon earthquake? Both are the names commonly used to refer to the event. Seems clear-cut to me - if the literature is referring to this earthquake as the
1356 Basel earthquake, why on earth should we have the right to turn around and insist on calling it the
Basel earthquake?
Carcharoth 19:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)reply
Since when are the title of Wikipedia articles when referring to a named event meant to be constructed on the basis of convenience or minimal disambiguation? General topic articles, yes, you have to be creative and precise with article names, but for specific named objects and events, the main criterion is the most commonly used name. I agree that with earthquake articles it is not clear cut (the names "1755 Lisbon earthquake", "Lisbon earthquake" and "Great Lisbon Earthquake" seem equally well-used). I have been searching for a guide on earthquake naming conventions, but haven't found anything so far. The default seems to be to use the name in the literature. In this case, the
1356 Basel earthquake. Can you explain why we should use a different name to that used by those writing and studying the event?
Carcharoth 02:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)reply
If there were a predictable convention of including dates with earthquake articles, that would be another matter; but there clearly isn't. Why should our readers have to look up the quake to find out what it's listed under?
SeptentrionalisPMAnderson 21:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)reply
But there is no common name for the Basel earthquake. Most readers will type in "Basel earthquake" and get redirected to "1356 Basel earthquake". Where is the problem? There is a long history of naming event articles this way. The examples you give concern names of people, animals, a statue and a philosophy (for want of a better word). It says nothing about names for events. It is incredibly common for event articles, and specifically earthquake articles, to have a year in the title. See
Category:Earthquakes_in_the_21st_century;
Category:Earthquakes_in_the_20th_century;
Category:Earthquakes_in_the_19th_century. I count 49 earthquake articles with a year in their title. It is how things are done. This is why I originally asked for the article to be created at
1356 Basel earthquake, and I feel that
Basel earthquake should have been created as a redirect, rather than having it done the other way around.
Carcharoth 00:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Also, the first two references used in this article refer to it as the 1356 Basel earthquake. Anyway, I'm off to actually link this article to others in the encyclopedia!
Carcharoth 23:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)reply
Something I've realised might not be clear from the above is that the article was originally at
1356 Basel earthquake. When creating the translation request, I considered both
1356 Basel earthquake and
Basel earthquake for the title, but neglected to actually do all the redirects after I'd chosen
1356 Basel earthquake (based on what the references called it and what other historical earthquakes have been called). Anyway, I'll go and do all these redirects now.
Carcharoth 23:37, 28 December 2006 (UTC)reply
Support more than half the articles in subcategories of
Category:Earthquakes by country appear to be in the form "<year> <place> earthquake". This is an example of being as precise as necessary. If/when there is another earthquake in Basel, who is going to want to move this page and fix the links at the same time as writing the article about
20?? Basel Earthquake? --
Scott DavisTalk 04:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Request rejected as malformed
Hmm. Because I didn't use the required template to generate a discussion-vote, the request was rejected as malformed. I'm restarting it below.
Carcharoth 13:27, 18 January 2007 (UTC)reply
I think the above are all reasonable (I didn't write out all possible combinations of capital letters and spellings of Basel).
Carcharoth 23:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)reply
Interesting German article
This German article,
w:de:Walram von Thierstein seems to have something about the earthquake. Anyone want to request a translation and see what it says?
Carcharoth 01:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)reply
The legend for short: two careless horsemen riding from Pfeffingen to Basel nearly hit an oncoming priest near Reinach, who warns them to be more careful, or else an Unglück (accident/disaster) will happen. They laugh at him and proceed, but Count Walram von Thierstein eventually regrets and returns to apologize when, while being on open field, the quake sets in. He is horrified to see the castles of Pfeffingen, Reichenstein, Birseck und Dorneck crumble to dust. His Burg Pfeffingen is damaged, but his family alive. Ritter von Bärenfels, on the other hand, just was under the Basel city gate when the Earthquake set in and was killed, as would have had von Thierstein. He set up the cross at the road near Reinach to commemorate, which was rebuild and moved since. --
Mattheaddiscuß! O 13:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)reply
One wonders if this could be true at all, given that the quake happened at 22:00 in mid-October. Pretty dark at the time, hard to imagine someone could see four castle at once unless under full moon and clear sky. Has anyone a Moon almanach for Julian calendar period, or is willing to check distances in Google Earth? :-) --
Mattheaddiscuß! O 13:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Great story! Thanks. Not sure how to put this in the article. Would it be sufficient to quote the source given in the German article, or is it best to try and find an English source. Must also remember to add more about the damage to castles and the damage to Basel cathedral. As for whether it is true or not, well, probably not, but just call it a story rather than a historical fact.
Carcharoth 13:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Another article
Well, there are lots of articles on this earthquake, but this pdf paper from the
USGS looks good:
Mentions Thierstein, but also crashes my browser.
Carcharoth 13:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Oops. That's already in the article. The "Lambert J., Winter T., Dewez T. J. B. et P. Sabourault (2005). New hypotheses on the maximum damage area of the 1356 Basel earthquake (Switzerland), Quaternary Science Reviews, 24, pp. 383–401." one - though having this link is good. I'll pop it in there.
Carcharoth 14:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. The new name is consistent with many other earthquake articles, and seems to be a quite common name of the event. -
GTBacchus(
talk) 03:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Basel earthquake →
1356 Basel earthquake — more common name used in earthquake literature - see also talk page discussion. This is a relisting of an earlier, malformed listing. Also, new naming convention evidence mentioned in discussion.
Carcharoth 13:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Survey
Add # '''Support''' or # '''Oppose''' on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is
not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.
Survey - in support of the move
Support - (1) This is how the earthquake is commonly referred to in earthquake literature; (2) The new name follows the naming conventions for historical events in general; (3) The new name follows the convention for how other earthquakes have been named on Wikipedia (see
Category:Earthquakes; (4) The page was originally created as
1356 Basel earthquake.
Carcharoth 13:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Support More consistent with other earthquake articles.
205.157.110.11 01:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Support I see no reason to change my comment above: more than half the articles in subcategories of
Category:Earthquakes by country appear to be in the form "<year> <place> earthquake". This is an example of being as precise as necessary. If/when there is another earthquake in Basel, who is going to want to move this page and fix the links at the same time as writing the article about
20?? Basel Earthquake? --
Scott DavisTalk 04:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC) --
Scott DavisTalk 07:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Survey - in opposition to the move
Oppose as above; this is overspecification.
Basel earthquake would be equally distinctive, is easier to link, and will presumably remain a redirect. I do not follow the claim about historical events in general; we have
Battle of Gettysburg, not
1863 Battle of Gettysburg. The literature as cited here seems to vary.
SeptentrionalisPMAnderson 18:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)reply
Discussion
Add any additional comments:
This is a relisting of an earlier, malformed request. Please see the earlier discussion further up the talk page. I will notify the other two people involved in the discussion. The discussion with the original page mover, Matthead, is now at
User_talk:Matthead/Archive2006#1356_Basel_earthquake.
Carcharoth 13:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Epicentre
The article states: "The epicentre was in Germany, in the Upper Rhine valley (Rhine rift) between Waldkirch and St. Peter in Breisgau-Hochschwarzwald." The German Wikipedia and some other sources indicate, that the epicentre was located south of Basel, close to
Reinach, Basel-Country, and not some 50 miles north of Basel. Could you plse doublecheck? Rgds --
Boobarkee (
talk) 07:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)reply
The same epicenter location is in the
Earthquakes in Germany summary and also in the
Upper Rhine PlainSeismic activity section. Citation needed has been added to the text in this article. If the location should be S of Basel, the Category:Earthquakes in Germany should be reconsidered for this article.
SBaker43 (
talk) 10:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)reply
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