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File:Wtc transportation hub.png Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Wtc transportation hub.png, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests September 2011
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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PXb-WH-95Mo/VUr7_VZm9SI/AAAAAAAAIaA/wR0Z9vvh4Ic/s640/IMG_6602.JPG it states only three tracks not four running — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.63.109.138 ( talk) 22:42, 7 May 2015 (UTC) reply

Separate article for Calatrava construction?

I note that the Hudson Terminal has its own page, but the new Calatrava-designed structure does not. Usually I think that fewer articles is appropriate, but in this case it might give more opportunity to discuss the design and construction considerations of the project. Bangabandhu ( talk) 16:54, 8 December 2015 (UTC) reply

External links modified

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pircture links

Why are having two pictures no links to their files? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WTC_bathtub_west.JPG en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WTC_bathtub_east.JPG ?! I took a fast look at the code but don't hav an idea. -- 93.220.212.124 ( talk) 14:00, 5 March 2016 (UTC) reply

Page name needs updating

It appears that the original World Trade Center PATH of the old twin towers was destroyed in the collapse of the towers back in 2001. What is there now is the new World Trade Center Transporation Hub, commonly known as the Oculus. The page name should be changed and the article updated. There's loads of RS to support this. SW3 5DL ( talk) 16:41, 11 February 2017 (UTC) reply

I agree that this page should be renamed soon. The Oculus station building is part of the WTC Hub, and so is the PATH station. This article talks about both. epicgenius ( talk) 19:02, 19 May 2018 (UTC) reply

Station Layout

"The current station has a temporary entrance that has been open since the temporary station entered service in November 2003. With the redevelopment of the World Trade Center site, the entrances and size of the temporary station have changed over time. The most current entrance to the station is located at Vesey Street, facing Greenwich Street and adjacent to 7 World Trade Center. The temporary entrance is a one-story building on the south side of Vesey Street with a Hudson News outlet and escalators extending into a lower level mezzanine."

I'm not familiar enough with the topic to make the edit, but it looks like this is referring to the old temporary station entrances. Dlthewave ( talk) 18:14, 20 July 2017 (UTC) reply

External links modified

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GA Review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:World Trade Center station (PATH)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: AmericanAir88 ( talk · contribs) 13:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC) reply


I apologize for you having to wait this long for this GA review. 5 months is a while. I will start this very soon, I just have to finish up with another review so I can focus solely on this. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 13:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Issues

@ Epicgenius:

  • "The station opened on July 19, 1909, as Hudson Terminal. As part of the construction of the World Trade Center, it was torn down, rebuilt as World Trade Center, and re-opened on July 6, 1971." Very Choppy Sentences
  • In the lead you go straight from the temporary station to the Oculus opening. Any thing big happen in between? Construction?
  • The lead should include the transfer stations such as Cortlandt or Park place and explain connections.
    • Done.
  • You say on the map that the one does not stop here but it will soon, so instead of saying that how about something along the lines of "under construction". It is confusing how the platforms say construction while the 1 line says "Does not stop"
  • "The terminal was an architectural and engineering marvel of its time" According to whom? It seems opinionated.
  • "Toward the end of 1961, negotiations with outgoing New Jersey Governor Robert B. Meyner regarding the World Trade Center project reached a stalemate. " Why a stalemate? Anything go on during the stalemate?
    • Since they disagreed and couldn't come to a compromise. Since it's a stalemate, by definition nothing happened. epicgenius ( talk) 19:53, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • The September 11th paragraph in "Original PATH station" should have links with the flight numbers for example instead of "first airplane", have "American Airlines flight 11" as the link.
    • Done.
  • What happened when United Flight 175 hit the south tower? You only have info on the first tower flight.
    • The station was destroyed when the towers collapsed, not when the planes collided in the towers. I clarified this. epicgenius ( talk) 19:53, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • The quotes in "Redesign" are quite lengthy. Any chance you can paraphrase or take thoughts from them?
    • Done.
  • The west concourse section could use some expansion and updating.
    • There's really not much to update/describe. It's separate from the main Oculus building, located under the east side of Greenwich Street, in that the passageway extends westward from the PATH station under Greenwich Street. It also contains a couple shops, and I think there was also some talk about this concourse being really expensive. epicgenius ( talk) 19:53, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
    • I have added some information. epicgenius ( talk) 20:09, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Why are the birth and death in "Opening"? Own section?
  • "A proposal for a connection to the Long Island Rail Road and John F. Kennedy International Airport via a new tunnel under the East River, the Lower Manhattan–Jamaica/JFK Transportation Project, was studied starting in 2004, but as of 2009 was a lower priority than other projects competing for funding." Please update
    • Done.
  • Any more news on the 1 Line station?
    • It is on schedule to open in October of this year. Reliable sources don't really say more than that. epicgenius ( talk) 19:53, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply

AmericanAir88 ( talk) 14:36, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Issues 2

@ Epicgenius: Excellent job as usual on the first set of issues. Just a couple more

  • The end of the lead talks about only criticism. I think talking about praise in the same section will be much more neutral. Plus, the station has various benefits.
  • I get what you are saying about the 1 line not saying "under construction". How about "Currently does not stop here" for the 1 line on the chart?

AmericanAir88 ( talk) 23:51, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Thanks. I'll address these on Sunday, as I will not be available tomorrow. epicgenius ( talk) 03:02, 7 July 2018 (UTC) reply
@ AmericanAir88: I added another detail to the lead that states that the hub has also received praise. The platform layout was harder, since the source code is at Template:NYCS Platform Layout Cortlandt Street Station, which is also transcluded on two other pages. I edited the template so that I could add a footnote that the Cortlandt Street station will reopen in October. epicgenius ( talk) 03:36, 7 July 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Epicgenius: Thank you. I will look back at the article for final glances soon. I am going through some trouble right now with a user out to get me and trying to delete me from reviewing AFCs after a mistake I made. I am sorry if there is a delay in final checks. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 03:47, 7 July 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Epicgenius: There will probably be a delay until tomorrow. I want to put all my attention on the review and not having it be a rushed thing while I deal with the trouble. Thank you so much for your patience and cooperation. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 03:50, 7 July 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Epicgenius: Passing. Excellent work as always. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 00:31, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Service changes until end of 2020

@ Cards84664: According to this source, this station will be closed most weekends from now until December 2020. I think we should put some S-line boxes to indicate this. epicgenius ( talk) 16:53, 3 January 2019 (UTC) reply

Potential split

This article goes into way too much detail about the transportation hub and not the actual PATH station. Unless if I am misunderstanding something, the transportation hub connects World Trade Center to both the NYC subway and PATH trains. This article should cover the PATH station, a separate article for the transportation hub could be started or split. Aasim ( talk) 18:49, 27 December 2021 (UTC) reply

Oppose The new PATH station was built to better connect the complex with the subway, despite still being a Port Authority Trans-Hudson station. The old WTC also included underground shopping malls. 𝑷𝒂𝒛 𝒆 𝒄𝒐𝒏𝒄𝒐́𝒓𝒅𝒊𝒂 What's up? 22:19, 27 December 2021 (UTC) reply
Oppose. These are the same thing. The transportation hub is actually only the PATH station and its entrance, which were built to replace the original station and entrance that had been completely destroyed during 9/11. As the section on the hub itself says: The World Trade Center Transportation Hub is the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey's formal name for the new PATH station and the associated transit and retail complex that opened on March 3, 2016. The section on the hub talks extensively about the current PATH station's reconstruction, so it is not "way too much detail about the transportation hub".
The subway connections are made through the hub but are not part of the hub. One of the subway stations ( WTC Cortlandt station) is above the PATH station, so going from the PATH to the WTC Cortlandt station merely involves walking upstairs or taking a set of elevators. The connections from the PATH to other NYC Subway stations involve walking through the PATH entrance, the Oculus. However, the transportation hub doesn't actually include these NYC Subway stations and is just an alternate name for the PATH reconstruction process. Basically, any article about the hub will cover the history of the PATH station after 9/11, while any article about the PATH station would completely duplicate the hub article after 9/11, making a split unnecessary. – Epicgenius ( talk) 16:23, 22 January 2022 (UTC) reply
In fact, looking at one of the older discussions above, it would probably be better to move this article to "World Trade Center Transportation Hub" rather than split the two pages. – Epicgenius ( talk) 16:38, 22 January 2022 (UTC) reply
@ Awesome Aasim and Paz e concórdia, would it make sense to instead move this article to "World Trade Center Transportation Hub", given the older discussion I mentioned above? Several reliable sources describe the hub as the current PATH station. Given that the article is focused on the hub, I think it may be appropriate to instead change the page title. Although this page also contains content about the two previous WTC stations on the site, railroad stations generally include info about past and previous stations on the same site in one article. (The Hudson Terminal station was on a completely different site and comprised its own development, hence why it's a separate page.) – Epicgenius ( talk) 19:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC) reply
@ Epicgenius, I think the title we have now is better because the article include large sections of info about Hudson Terminal and the temporary station. Also, PATH and the Port Authority refer to the terminal as World Trade Center Station. 𝑷𝒂𝒛 𝒆 𝒄𝒐𝒏𝒄𝒐́𝒓𝒅𝒊𝒂 What's up? 19:50, 22 January 2022 (UTC) reply
Sure, that seems to be a good solution. That title does a better job at focusing on the actual structure which houses the PATH station, and which connects to the NYC subway and the WTC complex. The current title implies that the WTC transportation hub is only a PATH station, which is not precisely correct. While yes, the transportation hub is a PATH station, it is more than just a PATH station. Just like while Penn Station is an LIRR station, it is more than just an LIRR station. Aasim ( talk) 19:50, 22 January 2022 (UTC) reply
Hmm, that is interesting. To your comparison Aasim, I'd probably equate this more with Jamaica station being an LIRR station, but not only being an LIRR station (since it has AirTrain JFK platforms as well). On the other hand, Jamaica is still mostly an LIRR station, just like the hub is still mostly a PATH station. The subway stations generally aren't considered part of the hub; only the connections from the PATH to the subway are.
Regarding Paz e concórdia's comment about the article's concent, the temporary and original PATH stations are discussed here in depth, but I don't think these are separate stations, as they were on the same site. On the other hand, the content about Hudson Terminal should probably be condensed and used as background information for the two old PATH stations, because Hudson Terminal was its own development on a separate site.
Concerning the name, a similar situation exists with three other PATH stations: Pennsylvania Station (Newark), Journal Square Transportation Center, and Hoboken Terminal. These are respectively just "Newark", "Journal Square", and "Hoboken" on the PATH. Given these parallels, I don't think it should be a large barrier to moving the page if that does happen. This can be addressed by slightly rewriting the first sentence in the "Station layout" section, with World Trade Center in bold. – Epicgenius ( talk) 20:07, 22 January 2022 (UTC) reply
  • When I was looking at the page I wondered if it made sense to create a new Lower Manhattan transit related page with information split from this page. Providing a page about how everything in the area links together would be useful for a number of different pages. Gusfriend ( talk) 06:12, 19 February 2022 (UTC) reply
    @ Gusfriend, a page about Lower Manhattan transit sounds like a good idea. That page could talk about details which are currently split across multiple pages. – Epicgenius ( talk) 00:44, 26 March 2022 (UTC) reply
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