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Regarding this recently deleted, and then undeleted, statement: The Spanish spoken in North Africa by native bilingual speakers of Arabic or Berber who also speak Spanish as a second language features characteristics involving the variability of the vowel system. This means that the way Spanish is spoken as a second language in one particular non-native area is relevant for this page. Apparently it is more relevant because of the presence of 2 Spanish cities in North Africa, which probably means that it is even more relevant for places like the US, Brazil or several Caribbean nations. Should we include, for instance, that students of Spanish from the US have trouble with the /ɾ/ - /r/ difference and they often get rid of the distinction in their Spanish? Or that Brazilian students of Spanish tend to pronounce both those sounds as velars? All that, I insist, in this particular page, and not for instance in Spanish as a second or foreign language, or other pages. I don't think that is a wise policy, the probability of someone reading this page to find out about that sort of details is, well, roughly zero. Jotamar ( talk) 00:16, 15 January 2024 (UTC) reply

Succintly outlining diglossic dynamics and language contact (and attrition) in the US in this page would be great, tbh. I am not sure if the context solely relates to "learners" in an academic setting. The current emphasis in this article favours speaking about the language in places in which it is not very spoken (plus counting up to the last speaker and not nuancing in any way whatsoever the "sovereign country" frame), instead of speaking about the languages in the places in which the language is spoken a lot, such as the Americas. In this sense, outlining dynamics of language contact and sociolinguistics in regard of some major indigenous languages of the Americas such as Guarani, Quechua or Aymara would be ace. The geographical area of linguistic transition between vernacular languages in North Africa, which is perhaps more relevant within those two cities than beyond those two cities, is interesting in a context of talking about the geographical distribution of a given language, and is perhaps less abrupt than most of the Portuguese-Spanish transition area in the Iberian Peninsula. Something about language contact in Uruguay-Brazil could be perhaps worth mentioning. All of this, of course, framing/focusing information in this article in terms of the language which this article deals about--Asqueladd ( talk) 20:37, 16 January 2024 (UTC) reply

That's not to say that at some point content may not be redirected to a more specific article, but frankly, the intimidating table entitled "Spanish speakers by country" full of original research and lopsided numbers should go first.--Asqueladd ( talk) 22:26, 16 January 2024 (UTC) reply

In addition to relevance, another concern of mine is that, being the only mention of traits of Spanish as a second language in all of the page, the text in question might easily mislead readers into thinking that Spanish is a native language in Northern Morocco. -- Jotamar ( talk) 23:07, 25 January 2024 (UTC) reply

I think the text talks about Northern Africa which deals about Spain and Morocco and it does not frames it in terms of native language. It is written thinking as those cities and its Moroccan hinterland as a region with a gradient. There are inhabitants (as well as workers: a flux of up to 30,000 vehicles a day in the Melilla-Nador-Selouane axis) in those two cities who do not have Spanish as a native language. As I said that gradient is perhaps more relevant within those Spanish cities ("Spain") than beyond them ("Morocco") but it exists both within and beyond. The source does not make a distinction either.--Asqueladd ( talk) 19:56, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I seek to challenge the insistence that Western Sahara be left out of the lead infobox map, seeing as multiple sources describe Spanish as a co-official language of the territory. Evaporation123 ( talk) 07:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC) reply

Should i rename Dependent territories to national subdivisions? JrBooyah ( talk) 23:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC) reply

No. The only place "Dependent territories" appears in over Puerto Rico in the infobox, and Puerto Rico isn't a national subdivision. It isn't part of the United States, it's a dependent territory of it. Largoplazo ( talk) 03:18, 21 January 2024 (UTC) reply

.i found a similar map where .el .salvador, .peru, and .chile are shaded in .castilian red:

Mapa de "Castellano" frente a "Español" para referirse al español - MoverDB.com Brawlio ( talk) 03:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC) reply

I am from Chile and we rarely refer to the language as "Español", almost always as "Castellano," in school textbooks and casual conversation. This might be changing with immigrants from other parts of South America who prefer to use "Español". I would support changing the map to the one you linked to, or one that has Chile with dashes.

Sources:

- Chilean General Education Law from 2009, Article 30, no. 2, declaring that "Lengua Castellana" is the primary language of instruction: https://www.bcn.cl/leychile/navegar?idNorma=1006043&idParte=

- Textbook from the Ministry of Education for "Castellano" as a school subject: https://bibliotecadigital.mineduc.cl/bitstream/handle/20.500.12365/411/MONO-341.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

- Textbook from 1967 also highlighting "Castellano", showing that this is the historically relevant term: https://bibliotecadigital.mineduc.cl/handle/20.500.12365/19723?show=full Diegojosesalva ( talk) 19:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC) reply

I answered this on the Spanish Wikipedia, but for the Philippines the source is page 236 of La lengua española en Filipinas by the Spanish linguists Antonio Quilis and Celia Casado-Fresnillo. 85% of their respondents referred to the language as "español"; the remainder used "castellano". This maps with contemporary (although anecdotal at this point) use of the two terms in English and the Philippine languages. -- Sky Harbor ^{( talk)} 17:34, 1 February 2024 (UTC) reply

i dont understand the idea about the language hierarchy goes down while veering off to right denoting the standar level of linguistic classification. so wheres the people can understand that curiousities? 182.253.54.75 ( talk) 08:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC) reply

It's a branch of a tree, like the one at Italic languages#Classification, just a single branch. Largoplazo ( talk) 10:22, 26 March 2024 (UTC) reply