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I think this is a rather obvious dicdef - a dawn raid is a raid, at dawn - and the article as it is seems like a rather POV list of arrests that happen to have occurred at dawn. Surely raids at dawn have been used in many countries, for many kinds of arrests, and not just in the UK and New Zealand? And ever since the dawn of law enforcement itself? Brianyoumans 09:04, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'd agree that the listing of particular arrests is not what this article should focus on, and that individual incidents should probably not be mentioned unless they contribute to a broader narrative. But I don't agree that this is a simple dicdef, like "orange socks" for instance. The term refers to a controversial enforcement tactic, with political significance that arises from the nature of its targets. -- Avenue 10:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
- I think I would argue that what is controversial here is the targeting of asylum seekers; the dawn raids are merely a tactic used. If they have become a symbol of the campaign, they should be mentioned prominently in any article that covers the issue, and, if this article is kept, it could have links to various examples of dawn raids, including this one. Dawn raids themselves are not controversial, if they are used properly; if a dangerous criminal is captured safely, or a terrorist cell broken up just before an operation, I don't think they are going to get much sympathy over being woken up early by a SWAT team. Even for the asylum seekers, I suspect the fact that they are being jailed and deported is far more significant in the long run than the modus operandi used. And if we remove most or all of the specific examples, what we have left looks like a dicdef to me. Brianyoumans 22:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- I was most surprised to see a list of examples of dawn raids, how ridiculous. The article should explain what a dawn raid is and why the early morning is such an effective time to apprehend someone. Apart from the likelihood of the target(s) being at home at that time, the main reason is the fact that the body clock is at its lowest ebb at around 6am; it is the time when even the most hardened party-goers tend to drop off. EdX20 04:48, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't mean to start a dispute with this, or associate current law enforcement tactics with nasty things, but it's probably worth mentioning that dawn raids have long been a favorite tactic of totalitarian regimes, often the first act of what culminates in a political disappearance. The gestapo was famed for them, as the obvious example, and many others learned from it
- I agree wholeheartedly, except that for localised importance held to the phrase. The phrase itself "dawn raid" has local cultural associations and importance. Albeit, Muldoon's tactics at immigration irregularities pales in comparison to the Gestapo use of the same in subjugating a whole section of society in a manner of social control. Nevertheless, the cultural importance of the (social control) tactics, at that time within the culture of New Zealand for instance, was such to promote musical group and later a record label. Does that make it a Kiwi thing or does this page need some input from the people around the wold who have been a subject of this form of terror? I feel strongly enough to want this to be a stand alone article L-Bit ( talk) 08:50, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
from Investopedia:
The action of a firm or investor buying a substantial amount of shares in a company (making it a target firm) first thing in the morning when the stock markets open. This is done by a stock broker acting on behalf of a company. Because the bidding company builds a substantial stake in its target at the prevailing stock market price, the takeover costs are likely to be significantly lower than they would be had the acquiring company first made a formal takeover bid.
With this definition, there would be three meanings. Time for a disambiguation page?
Jer ome ( talk) 19:37, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a dictionary. This article is crap, from the beginning till the end. "Dawn Raids by Country" - mixed with some stereotypical bullshit like Germany using it for deporting immigrants - its not the SS anymore, we're in the 21st century now. Dawn raids are a common thing and not only applied to immigrants, but also to crimes of all sorts - let it be theft, burglary, drug trafficing or anything else they need additional evidence for. This is the worst and most useless article Ive ever seen on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.241.164.249 ( talk) 22:54, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Everything in this article past the lede appears to fall foul of one or both of the policies. It contains precious little information about how police forces conduct raids. Instead presenting an essay discussing New Zealand's 1970s immigration policies, before slipping into a list of people detained during raids in the US and UK. The list of UK detainees also seems to provide undue weight to cases of raids conducted for immigration enforcement.
Some of the information could be cleaned up and incorporated into Illegal immigration. But this particular article clearly needs more details about how raids are conducted by various police forces and fewer about legal and social issues only tangentially related to them. 203.97.181.188 ( talk) 04:40, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
The New Zealand section warrants being a seperate article, say Dawn Raids, New Zealand (will look at that). Probably enough in the other articles to warrant an overall article? Hugo999 ( talk) 05:39, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
The New Zealand Dawn Raids are a specific historical events - this should be it's own article rather than included in police raids in general. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.154.14.164 ( talk) 09:02, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Despite reluctance of some news sources to use the term, the definition of raid clearly fits thr Trump case. The lead has a checklist of thing defining raid. Here are the qualifications for raid and how Trump meeets all of them
Unexpected Visit
The visit was unexpected per an article from bloomberg(run by a guy that has the same negitive opinons of trump as me) https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-08-09/fbi-raid-on-trump-s-mar-a-lago-three-legal-takeaways
by police or other law-enforcement officers
FBI is law enforcement, read here for more info Federal Bureau of Investigation
using the element of surprise
See Above.
goal to seize evidence or arrest suspects
The bloomberg source as well as pretty much other all other sources say evidence was seized
DO NOT RE-ADD UNTIL CONSENSUS IS REACHED Cookiegator ( talk) 19:29, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment I have reverted the addition until consensus has been reached, per
WP:STATUSQUO. Also, the aspect of "seizing evidence" was added in
this edit after the FBI's actions on August 9. The inclusion of that phrase should also be a topic of conversation. --
Cerebral726 (
talk) 19:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- but it still fits the other 3 categories pre-edit if you have problems with that, dont revert it create a section below here Cookiegator ( talk) 19:45, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment I have reverted the addition until consensus has been reached, per
WP:STATUSQUO. Also, the aspect of "seizing evidence" was added in
this edit after the FBI's actions on August 9. The inclusion of that phrase should also be a topic of conversation. --
Cerebral726 (
talk) 19:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Also many sources are calling it raid
- ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-10/trumps-fbi-mar-a-lago-raid-and-his-legal-entanglements/101316784
- SMH: https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/fbi-under-pressure-to-explain-trump-raid-at-mar-a-lago-20220810-p5b8nh.html
- The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/09/donald-trump-fbi-raid-documents
- 9News: https://www.9news.com.au/world/donald-trump-mar-a-lago-resort-raided-by-fbi-former-president-claims/e724ec62-fc64-4e38-b280-d9f97f29991d
- The Conversation: https://theconversation.com/as-the-fbi-raids-mar-a-lago-donald-trump-reaches-for-unconvincing-historical-parallels-188455
- BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62486406
I want to give 675930s credit for this list Cookiegator ( talk) 19:51, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thoughts on including the Mar-A-Lago raid: I have long thought this was a crappy, ill-thought-out article (see my comments above dated 2007 or so), and it hasn't gotten better. For one thing, most of the content is on the idea of a "dawn raid", and in fact much of it on a particular group of raids connected with immigration enforcement in New Zealand. If that part was taken out and/or merged with an article on immigration in NZ, perhaps the rest could be refocused to an article actually about police raids, or police raids at dawn - how they are conducted, research on them, the law about them in various countries, etc. An article that is simply a mish-mash of snippets about various individual police raids seems pointless to me. Which is a long-winded way of saying, I don't see any point in including anything about the Mar-A-Lago raid, mostly because I don't think any individual raid is worth mentioning unless it was particularly novel or legally ground-breaking - which I don't think it was.
Brianyoumans (
talk) 20:16, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- Then why is there no banner Cookiegator ( talk) 20:28, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think that's a fair point
Brianyoumans. A list of mixed notable and non-notable raids is hardly a good coverage of what a police raid actually is. I would support the wholesale removal of the (largely unsourced) list of raids. It's could be integrated elsewhere but does not belong in the article.
Cerebral726 (
talk) 20:32, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- but then why did he not put a banner.
Cookiegator (
talk) 21:07, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- Having tagged something in the past isn't a requirement for having suggestions for improvement. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Cerebral726 ( talk) 23:04, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- but then why did he not put a banner.
Cookiegator (
talk) 21:07, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thoughts on including the Mar-A-Lago raid: I have long thought this was a crappy, ill-thought-out article (see my comments above dated 2007 or so), and it hasn't gotten better. For one thing, most of the content is on the idea of a "dawn raid", and in fact much of it on a particular group of raids connected with immigration enforcement in New Zealand. If that part was taken out and/or merged with an article on immigration in NZ, perhaps the rest could be refocused to an article actually about police raids, or police raids at dawn - how they are conducted, research on them, the law about them in various countries, etc. An article that is simply a mish-mash of snippets about various individual police raids seems pointless to me. Which is a long-winded way of saying, I don't see any point in including anything about the Mar-A-Lago raid, mostly because I don't think any individual raid is worth mentioning unless it was particularly novel or legally ground-breaking - which I don't think it was.
Brianyoumans (
talk) 20:16, 10 August 2022 (UTC)