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This
edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.
I have a suggested addition for the "Awards and honours" section:
In 2018, Mitchell was honoured by the city of Saskatoon, when two plaques were erected to commemorate her musical beginnings in Saskatoon. One was installed by the
Broadway Theatre beside the former Louis Riel Coffee House, where Mitchell played her first paid gig. A second plaque was installed at
River Landing, near the
Remai Modern art gallery and
Persephone Theatre performing arts centre. As well, the walkway along Spadina Crescent between Second and Third Avenues was formally named the Joni Mitchell Promenade.[1][2]
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Drm310 (
talk •
contribs) 16:48, 11 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Is it really Joni Mitchell CC (top right, above the info box? In the article on Buffy Sainte-Marie you have OC for the same honour - and a more plausible abbreviation of "Order of Canada". — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Gpapke (
talk •
contribs) 09:26, 29 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Yes, because Mitchell is a Companion of the
Order of Canada (CC) while Sainte-Marie is an Officer of the Order of Canada (OC). Graham87 13:51, 29 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Joni's dad's profession
Every time I put in what her dad did for a living after the war - he was a grocer - someone deletes it. I think that is an important part of her history and she has mentioned it countless times. What's the problem with mentioning it? Who keeps deleting it? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
207.161.148.199 (
talk) 13:45, 28 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I was the first one to add that her father was a flight instructor during the war. That came from her father's obituary, which I found online. I didn't mention the source, someone else added that. I also added that, after the war, her father worked as a grocer. She talks about it all the time when she talks about her family. It is a fact mentioned in numerous articles about her, The Calgary Herald 'Swerve' February 2, 2007 is one example. Her dad was a flight instructor during the war. Only during the war. Then he became a grocer. It's pointless to change it because it always gets deleted. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
207.161.148.199 (
talk) 07:59, 10 June 2019 (UTC)reply
When was this? I've fixed up the early life section of the article with sources; it's sorta in line with
this version from 2016. Graham87 16:40, 10 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the addition. But the paragraph is not written well. It doesn't flow. I'm not talking about what you added. I'm talking about the whole paragraph. I'm picky. I had it flowing until people came along and changed it. I give up. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
207.161.148.199 (
talk) 07:49, 28 June 2019 (UTC)reply
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
I'm surprised that the article mentions her marriage to Larry Klein in 1982 but not her earlier marriage to Mr. Mitchell.
John Link (
talk) 01:17, 12 August 2020 (UTC)reply
It's there, in the "1964–1967: Career beginnings and motherhood" section: "Sometime in late April 1965, Joni left Canada for the first time; she traveled with New York City born American folk singer Charles Scott 'Chuck' Mitchell to the US, where the two began playing music together. Joni, 21 years old, married Chuck in an official ceremony in his hometown in June 1965 and took his surname. ..." Graham87 03:39, 12 August 2020 (UTC)reply
So it is! Perhaps the section ought to be entitled "1964–1967: Career beginnings, motherhood, and marriage". What do you think?
John Link (
talk) 14:28, 12 August 2020 (UTC)reply
No objections. Would seem much fairer, especially for a BLP.
Martinevans123 (
talk) 14:32, 12 August 2020 (UTC)reply
No objections to the idea, but I'll make a couple of tweaks. You'll see. Graham87 15:14, 12 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks. Um, so now..... no mention of first divorce?
Martinevans123 (
talk) 15:51, 12 August 2020 (UTC)reply
It would be an improvement to include something about her first divorce.
John Link (
talk) 18:40, 12 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Well, the article says "The marriage and partnership of Joni and Chuck Mitchell dissolved in early 1967 ...". :-) Graham87 03:35, 13 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Yes, it does. Although apparently unsourced. And it makes it sound like there was never any formal legal divorce. The status of her autobiography, that she signed up with Random House to write 30 years ago, is not clear. It it one of
these?
Martinevans123 (
talk) 09:27, 13 August 2020 (UTC)reply
I don't think so. I for one haven't heard anything recent about it. Graham87 15:03, 13 August 2020 (UTC)reply
The divorce is mentioned in this
2017 book review: "In 1965, she gave birth to a daughter whom she ultimately gave up for adoption. After this, she married folk singer Chuck Mitchell, and they began performing in Detroit and New York City, but she quickly divorced him, telling Yaffe that her husband was her "first major exploiter." Maybe there are more details in Yaffe's book?
Martinevans123 (
talk) 15:30, 13 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Yaffe's book does not give a specific date for the divorce, but refers to her as "a 24-year-old divorcee". There are multiple sources (
here's one) that state that they were divorced in 1967. I've clarified the text - "dissolved" was a little unclear.
Ghmyrtle (
talk) 10:01, 31 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Recent releases
Hi folks, I have just entered the 2020 recordings into the list of Studio Albums, but some of the material is live and I guess that might call into question whether we change the section name to Albums, and include some other live sessions? I can understand that when you start entering live albums, it is easy to drift into bootlegs, so perhaps it stays as Studio Albums? What do people think? I don't have a problem if a few responsible editors agree to delete what I put in. All good.
They are essentially compilation albums, albeit containing previously unreleased recordings, both studio and live. It would be clearer and simpler not to include them in the list in this article.
Ghmyrtle (
talk) 08:47, 31 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Yes, I guess you are right. Perhaps there could be a section on live albums though, just thinking of Miles of Aisles and Shadows of Light - and now these collections. I am happy for the ones I added not to live in the current section for now. Is anybody keen to set up a place to look at her live albums? There has been a lot of interesting discussion around these lately, and they are an important part of her work. Just a thought.
This article (
Joni Mitchell) should only provide an introduction to
her discography, and in my view the only albums it should list are the canonical ones from Songs from a Seagull to Shine - though there is a case for including the live ones released during her performing career like Miles of Aisles. Readers interested in her entire discography - including compilations, anthologies, singles, etc. - should be directed to the discography article.
Ghmyrtle (
talk) 09:48, 31 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Yes, I can totally see that.
Realitylink (
talk) 22:10, 31 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Personal life
I was surprised to note the lack of a section on "Personal life" that would pull together in one place her marriages & other events that are presently scattered throughout the present page. Is there any reason not to create a "Personal life" section? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
WilliamWQuick (
talk •
contribs) 16:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Right now it's mostly arranged chronologically. Not that other methods aren't also fine, but IMO chronological is good. North8000 (
talk) 17:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Someone should add to the infobox both marriages - Chuck Mitchell (1965-1967) and
Larry Klein (1982-1994). I tried, but the infobox kept getting messed up for some reason, so I didn't save changes. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
50.67.13.101 (
talk) 06:03, 24 February 2022 (UTC)reply
I agree. The article is really confusing to any reader who wants to know about her personal life. --
SergeWoodzing (
talk) 01:43, 29 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Norwegian ancestry - so far, still no Sami found yet
1974 live album “Miles of Aisles” needs to be included.
67.247.204.25 (
talk) 06:09, 3 January 2022 (UTC)reply
The list in the main article about Mitchell is for studio albums only, as is standard here. Graham87 14:48, 3 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Smoker at age 9??
I can't access the source. Could someone give us a direct quotation to support this? Thanks.
Sundayclose (
talk) 02:17, 10 January 2022 (UTC)reply
You can use the
archived link ... there are other ways in for free as well. FWIW it says this: "I have smoked since I was nine, so obviously it didn't affect my early work that much." And then she diverts into a rambling reminiscence of childhood in the remote farming community of Saskatoon. "I would grab my tobacco and get on my bike, looking for a beautiful place, a grove of trees or a field, and go amongst the bushes and smoke and that always gave me a sense of well being." I think I've seen her say similar things in other interviews. Graham87 02:53, 10 January 2022 (UTC)reply
I added a sentence to the lead but it was reverted
here with the edit summary "recent news not needed in the intro". Just to note that this controversy was mentioned today on BBC Radio News, and discussed on the BBC Radio 4 Today programme and has led to Rogan commenting and Spotify reacting by adding a content advisory notice to podcasts:
[1]Martinevans123 (
talk) 13:38, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
I tend to agree that it's not something for the lead, per
MOS:BLPLEAD - "Well-publicized recent events affecting a subject, whether controversial or not, should be kept in historical perspective. What is most recent is not necessarily what is most noteworthy..." Chicken scratching for immortality, in other words. Nice to see her on news sites though.
Ghmyrtle (
talk) 13:52, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
OK. I doubt she will be featured tomorrow. But it was the rarity of the mention that prompted my addition. I don't suppose it will appear in the lead at
Neil Young. But then he's know for being a bit bolshy?
Martinevans123 (
talk) 14:02, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
I agree with Ghmyrtle. This is of fleeting importance to her whole career, at best ... and lol at the "Hejira" ref. Graham87 15:31, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
I agree that it is best to not put that in the lead, including for the reasons described above. North8000 (
talk) 16:04, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
I also concur that this is not a major part of her story. It is correctly covered by a few short sentences in the main body, but does not belong in the lead. --
Jayron32 16:16, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
I'd suggest Mitchell's immortality was assured a while ago, whether or not she's able to scratch Rogan off Spotify.
Martinevans123 (
talk) 17:10, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Recent edit
I naturally agree with
this edit by
Ghmyrtle, but I think it's worth pointing out (because I for one had no idea about this!) that
Shelagh McDonald is actually a rather obscure singer-songwriter with a sporadic career and a fascinating life story whose early 1970s music does have some resemblance to Joni Mitchell's. The best example I could find after a quick check was
her take on "
Let No Man Steal Your Thyme", a song I know from the
Pentangle version. I think Shelagh McDonald is probably too obscure to mention here though, even if we did find a source about Mitchell's influence on her. Graham87 02:04, 25 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I imagine that there are hundreds of notable musicians who have claimed to have been influenced by Joni Mitchell. A few of the most notable could be mentioned - but we don't want to start trying to include every one.
Ghmyrtle (
talk) 08:39, 25 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Mitchell is currently not mentioned at
Shelagh McDonald. One might expect a small mention there, but probably not here.
Martinevans123 (
talk) 08:59, 25 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Update needed
If anyone has the energy to update this article, it needs more about her performance at
The Gorge and about her
Newport album release.
Elttaruuu (
talk) 08:24, 12 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Gershin award 2023
Diana Krall also appeared as one of the featured artists
174.93.89.135 (
talk) 11:00, 2 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks, I've added her because she's mentioned in the second cited reference. Graham87 15:14, 2 September 2023 (UTC)reply
edit of 25 January 2024
It seems to me that with the text "when the dust settles" removed in
this edit, it isn't clear why we're being speculative. We then have to say that either she is/was the most influential female recording artist or not. If we don't have an answer to that now, then I think we need to leave in the implication that this is yet to be determined.
Fabrickator (
talk) 22:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)reply
It's not entirely clear when Jason Ankeny wrote that. Sometime in 2011? So perhaps not the dust "of the late 20th century"? Either way, the AllMusic no longer has that text. Perhaps it already has been decided (but not by Jason Ankeny).
Martinevans123 (
talk) 22:51, 25 January 2024 (UTC)reply
If Ankeny did not start that sentence with "Joni Mitchell may stand..." are we not at least obliged to show some ellipsis at the start of that "quote." I didn't realise we were simply allowed to simply remove bits of a quote we didn't like. Also, is it ok to have the quote only in the lead section and nowhere else? Thanks.
Martinevans123 (
talk) 09:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)reply
This quote, starting with "when the dust settles", was published in April 2000. See
Joni Mitchell Biography by Jason Ankeny. On the Allmusic webste, that text was removed in later versions, but the earliest version available on wayback only goes back to 2011. However, wayback has a
2006 copy from the Joni Mitchell website.
Fabrickator (
talk) 16:50, 26 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Ok, so Ankeny is a better source than AllMusic? And his biography would be a better citation that an old AllMusic page?
Martinevans123 (
talk) 16:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't know that we have a statement from either AllMusic or Ankeny as to when they first posted it. We have two identified sources, AllMusic and Joni Mitchell, and we have Wayback's record of when they archived it. The oldest page from AllMusic is a Wayback copy from 2011. That's as far back as the Wayback archives for AllMusic.com go. OTOH, Joni Mitchell's site claims to have posted the column in October 2000, but dates the column to April 2000. Here is the
oldest Wayback copy]. There is nothing that is inconsistent with the April 2000 claim.
Fabrickator (
talk) 21:02, 26 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Apologies. I had assumed that Ankeny had written a book. So it's basically all AllMusic. But we still get to chop off the first four words... because the dust has settled, or because we don't know when the dust will ever settle, or because we don't believe in dust, or because there's no dust on Joni?
Martinevans123 (
talk) 21:19, 26 January 2024 (UTC)reply
claim about reason for move
Article states "her father took a job as a grocer and his work took the family to Saskatchewan". I am skeptical of the claim that the family specifically moved to Saskatchewan to obtain or retain his position as a grocer. It seems just as likely they moved there for any number of other reasons and then he obtained a job related to his prior work experience.
Fabrickator (
talk) 15:49, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
The
source given says this: "At this postwar point, Mitchell's father was out of the service and employed as the manager of an outlet of the
O.K. Economy chain of general stores in
North Battleford, Saskatchewan, a rural suburb of the provincial city of
Saskatoon." So that seems to fit, if not exactly?
Martinevans123 (
talk) 15:56, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
This leaves the impression either that he needed to move to Saskatchewan as part of his existing job as a grocer, or that they pulled up roots from wherever they were to accept the job as a grocer.
Evidently, the fact is that having left military service, he found work as a grocer in Saskatchewan. While the current wording might be literally true, the way it is worded leaves me scratching my head.
Fabrickator (
talk) 17:46, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I'd agree that the job title "a grocer" might be misleading. So what about: "After the war, her father worked as a manager of an O.K. Economy store in
North Battleford, Saskatchewan, a rural suburb of
Saskatoon." Her living in
Maidstone would need another source.
Martinevans123 (
talk) 18:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
While this whole thing is pretty much a minor point, I will respectfully disagree with your interpretation that "grocer" might be misleading. A grocer is the owner or manager of a grocery store, OK Economy is known as a defunct chain of grocery stores, so based on the source, her father was in fact employed as a grocer.
What I take issue with is the claim that it was his work that "took the family to Saskatchewan". There's nothing suggesting that they moved to Saskatchewan in connection with maintaining or obtaining employment as a grocer. It appears to be a mere fabrication.
Fabrickator (
talk) 02:48, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Perhaps you could suggest an alternative re-write. The current source doesn't support her living in
Maidstone, so that should probably be removed? I think there might be a slight difference between the meaning of "grocer" in UK and Canadian English. Thanks.
Martinevans123 (
talk) 08:42, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I had actually intended that i should only report problems and take no interest in actually getting those problems fixed. My issue was very narrow, you seemed to want to expand the issue beyond what I reported. Subsequent edits precluded a simple revert, so I have reverted the objectionable edit manually. It isn't perfect, but it addresses the issue I intended to raise.
Fabrickator (
talk) 14:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I see. She does mention Maidstone in that interview, so that's fine. I had thought that "manager of an O.K. Economy store" was more accurate than just "grocer".
Martinevans123 (
talk) 19:28, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply