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External links modified

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Added Entry

Hello, having difficulty adding an entry detailing the links between Governor Brown's family and the Sempra Energy, Aliso Canyon, Porter Ranch Gas Leak. I have removed POV, and cited mainly primary sources (Sempra Energy and Socal Gas's own websites), as well as a national newspaper article, but still getting the entry removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk • contribs) 22:40, 14 May 2018 (UTC) reply

I have been notified I am stringing along cited sources to come up with an unverified conclusion. Ravensfire, if I only had the first two paragraphs, with the primary source links to the company's website, and removed the third paragraph that discusses recusing etc., would the entry be permissible. I also am aware that I reverted three editorial edits within 24 hours, and will be mindful of not doing that in the future. Thank you for your help. Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk) 22:49, 14 May 2018 (UTC) reply

To me this reads like an attempt at a political attack by a new editor who registered solely for the purpose of ax-grinding. It's soaked in WP:SYNTH, doing its own research on Kathleen Brown and drawing its own conclusions.
This would be a great rant to put on your own blog, but Wikipedia is not the place for it. TJRC ( talk) 23:06, 14 May 2018 (UTC) reply

Why do you characterize this as a rant and/or ax-grinding. The sources are primary sources. I wouldn't be averse to removing the conclusions from the third paragraph, and keeping just the ties from the Governor to Sempra Energy. Would you still consider that a rant? Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk) 23:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC) reply

Hello Sonsanddaughtersporterranch. Your user name indicates that you have an obvious conflict of interest in this matter. You seem to misunderstand some basic principles of Wikipedia. Please be aware that Wikipedia is not a place for you to right great wrongs. All content that you write for Wikipedia must be written from the neutral point of view, and your proposed edit is neither neutral nor properly formatted. If this content was appropriate for this biography, (which it isn't) then it would have to report the denials of misconduct by a spokesperson for the governor. Your comment about primary sources also indicates a misunderstanding of Wikipedia. Especially when it comes to contentious material, we rely on reliable, independent secondary sources, not on primary sources. Your gripe seems to be with Kathleen Brown not with Jerry Brown, and it is wrong to bring this content into her brother's article. The implication that Jerry Brown somehow benefits financially from his sister's corporate board service is absurd on the face of it. She is 72 and he is 80, and both have had long successful careers. I very much doubt that they share money between themselves. The most important point is that this is a biography that summarizes Jerry Brown's whole life and his 50 years of public service, and this matter is a trivial blip in his life story. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 23:57, 14 May 2018 (UTC) reply
As a further note, the article on this - Porter Ranch gas leak has a brief mention of this, which is the appropriate place and the appropriate weight for this. Ravensfire ( talk) 00:08, 15 May 2018 (UTC) reply

request consensus before adding entry

I would like to add the following entry to the wikipedia page, and posting it here to get consensus before publishing it on the page. Entry is as follows:

Family ties to Largest Industrial Gas Leak (Porter Ranch)

Jerry Brown's sister, Kathleen Brown, is on the Board of Directors of Sempra Energy https://www.sempra.com/investors/governance/board-of-directors [1].

Sempra Energy owns Southern California Gas Company https://www.sempra.com/about-us/our-companies [2], which in turn owns the Aliso Canyon Natural Gas Storage Facility in Porter Ranch https://www.socalgas.com/stay-safe/pipeline-and-storage-safety/aliso-canyon-storage-facility1 [3].

Governor Brown has not ordered the site permanently closed, even with additional gas leaks. https://www.dailynews.com/2015/12/18/sister-of-california-gov-jerry-brown-on-socalgas-board/ [4]

END ENTRY

All the claims are factual, and the sources are from the companies' own websites, or newspaper articles subject to their own editorial review.

The entry is relevant since Governor Brown, as the highest executive authority in the state, is responsible for the Governor's Office of Emergency Services (Cal OES), Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment, and Emergency Medical Services Authority (EMSA) -- all of which are tasked to respond to environmental and medical disasters.

Thank you for your instruction and guidance. Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk) 20:07, 15 May 2018 (UTC) reply

Hello Ravensfire, Cullen states above that 1) nepotism and cronyism in government is absurd, and 2) the largest methane gas leak in history is trivial. How are either of those reasons factual, and not themselves unfounded opinions by Cullen? Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk) 20:24, 15 May 2018 (UTC) reply

Cullen's language in his reasons to oppose the entry shows favoritism, lack of impartiality, and flagrant assumption on his part, "I very much doubt that they share money between themselves." Please explain how this a Neutral Point of View? Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk) 21:58, 15 May 2018 (UTC) reply

Here is a secondary source citing the conflict of interest and ties between Governor Brown and Sempra Energy (San Diego Tribune) http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sd-me-sempra-report-20170801-story.html, that refutes Cullen328 's assumptions in his opposition to adding the entry. Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk) 22:47, 15 May 2018 (UTC) reply

You are wrong on the substance, Sonsanddaughtersporterranch, and it is you who has a conflict of interest here, as your username and your behavior makes clear. That article is not proof that Jerry Brown had a conflict of interest. It reports allegations of a conflict of interest by an activist group, which a Brown spokesperson denied. Quoting from the article: "The Governor’s Office rejected the groups’ report as old and baseless, saying there are no conflicts of interest and Brown-appointed regulators are holding utilities to account." The neutral point of view is a core content policy that applies to article content, not to talk page discussion. I urge you to recognize your own deep and severe conflict of interest on this matter, and abandon your efforts to add non-neutral content to this article. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 23:13, 15 May 2018 (UTC) reply
Cullen here is another article detailing the conflict of interest between Governor Brown and Sempra Energy https://news.littlesis.org/2017/08/02/governor-jerry-browns-million-dollar-conflict-of-interest-at-aliso-canyon/. I am trying to eliminate the conflict of interest in the entry itself, through this submission process. As far as my most recent submission, that only cites the company websites, and a newspaper article, you seem to only be focusing on my username, and persistence. Please explain what about my username disqualifies me from adding an entry. Going back to your response above, where you state, "The implication that Jerry Brown somehow benefits financially from his sister's corporate board service is absurd on the face of it. She is 72 and he is 80, and both have had long successful careers. I very much doubt that they share money between themselves." Do you believe that quid pro quo does not occur in democracies, and should not be discussed? I am responding specifically to what you wrote. You can continue to accuse me of adding non-neutral content, but please explain your own reasoning in opposing my entry. There is nowhere in my entry that explicitly states that Governor Brown has a conflict of interest. The entry details and cites the connections Governor Brown has to Aliso Canyon (filial relationships are a connection, especially if concerning quid pro quo campaign contributions). Thank you very much. Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk) 23:49, 15 May 2018 (UTC) reply
Sonsanddaughtersporterranch, Littlesis.org is an activist advocacy website and is not a reliable source by Wikipedia's standards. If you doubt me, please take the issue to the Reliable sources noticeboard. As for your username, it violates our Username policy in two ways. First of all, the wording "Sonsanddaughters" implies that this is a shared account representing either a group of people, or possibly a local business. As the policy states: "Because Wikipedia's policy is that usernames should not be shared between more than one individual, usernames that imply the likelihood of shared use are not permitted." Secondly, the username taken in context with your edits regarding the Porter Ranch gas leak, constitutes evidence that you are here to promote a cause, as opposed to improving the encyclopedia. Therefore, your username is promotional, as it implies that it represents an activist group involved with the Porter Ranch controversy. The policy language says: "A user who both adopts a promotional username and also engages in inappropriately promotional behaviors in articles about the company, group, or product, can be blocked." You are at risk of being blocked. I am an administrator and an editor with nine years of experience, but I cannot block you myself in this matter since I am involved in a content dispute with you. However, I can bring this matter to the attention of an uninvolved administrator if you do not stop your disruptive efforts to try to add inappropriate, non-neutral content to this biography. That may well lead to administrative action against you. This inappropriate content simply will not be added to this biography, as no other experienced editors support your proposal. So, I advise you to cease and desist. Please take my advice, and change your username which violates policy. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:30, 16 May 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose. Accusations are not facts; correlation is not causality. The last sentence is pure POV pushing; there's an unspoken implication that somehow Brown should have taken the action the sentence says he didn't. We generally do not publish accusations and imputations of this sort. --jpgordon 𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 00:01, 16 May 2018 (UTC) reply
Cullen and jpgordon. Thank you for your information on reliability of sources, and the last sentence containing an unspoken implication. As far as Littlesis.org, i realize it is an advocacy website, and did not post it in the entry, but offered it to Cullen as another source. Cullen did not mention the earlier San Diego Tribune Source I posted in the Talk page, which I believe should count as a reliable secondary source. Regarding the entry, if I changed my username (I am not part of an advocacy group, and an individual -- for what its worth over the internet), and removed the last sentence, would the entry then be suitable for publication?
Cullen as far as taking administrative action against me, in any investigation I would refer the third-party administrator to the language you used in the Talk Page about my earlier entries, as bias and indicative your own COI. You made several unfounded opinions to justify removing my entry -- using the term absurd, indicating that the age of the subject has anything to do with his actions concerning his duties as governor, as well as ignoring the secondary sources I later included in the Talk Page. I removed the WP:SYNC, and am attempting to eliminate the WP:COI. I am not engaging in edit war (as I stopped publishing to the entry, and am attempting to engage within the Talk page, and improve the content of the entry). Perhaps it would be best to escalate this matter to a third-party, as it seems Cullen has read into my username without any supporting facts, and/or possibly taken umbrage to a new editor disagreeing with him. Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk) 19:33, 16 May 2018 (UTC) reply
You are accusing me of having a conflict of interest while presenting zero evidence, Sonsanddaughtersporterranch, and that is a very unwise thing to do. Take a look at my contributions to this article, which consists of adding a photo of his 1970s Plymouth, which I took at a car museum in Sacramento. Do you really think that establishes a conflict of interest? Gimme a break. You, on the other hand, have "Porter Ranch" in your username and your editing is solely focused on Porter Ranch. Of course you should change your username because it violates policy, but that does not mean that you will then be able to add non-neutral content, or any content without gaining consensus. And consensus at this time is against you, because you do not understand Wikipedia policies in general and WP:NPOV in particular. You seem incapable at this time of writing neutral content, because you have an axe to grind. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:01, 17 May 2018 (UTC) reply
There's no need for the first two sentences; anyone interested in the activities of Kathleen Brown will click on the link to her entry and read about it there. That's what links are for. Other than the attempt to accuse Brown of nepotism and a conflict of interest and not doing his job properly because of his sister's business affiliations, why is this worth mentioning in this article at all? But I also don't know why you haven't been blocked for your username already; I would have done it myself rather than post here had I been paying proper attention. --jpgordon 𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 21:36, 16 May 2018 (UTC) reply
jpgordon, thank you for your logical, concise, and respectful answer. Sonsanddaughtersporterranch ( talk) 23:23, 16 May 2018 (UTC) reply

References

  1. ^ https://www.sempra.com/investors/governance/board-of-directors
  2. ^ https://www.sempra.com/about-us/our-companies
  3. ^ https://www.socalgas.com/stay-safe/pipeline-and-storage-safety/aliso-canyon-storage-facility1
  4. ^ https://www.dailynews.com/2015/12/18/sister-of-california-gov-jerry-brown-on-socalgas-board/

California Uber Alles

Why no mention at all of the very important 1979 punk song by the Dead Kennedys, entirely dedicated to Brown?-- 5.170.39.51 ( talk) 06:51, 24 October 2018 (UTC) reply

"Very important" ? Give me a break. 203.160.69.103 ( talk) 08:14, 25 October 2020 (UTC) reply

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