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	This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 24, 2004.
Article milestones Date Process Result April 19, 2004 Featured article candidate Promoted March 29, 2006 Featured article review Kept June 26, 2006 Featured article review Demoted December 4, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted January 4, 2007 Good article nominee Listed August 10, 2008 Good article reassessment Delisted Current status: Former featured article

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To-do list for Hinduism:  ·  history ·  watch ·  refresh · Updated 2021-06-06 Ongoing: Get better references and citations in all sections where they are lacking. Prune to (and keep at!) a size below 65k ( WP:SS! avoid Wikipedia:main article fixation + WP:SIZE) Aspire to FA quality Add criticism and demographic sections Attempt to explain Hindu perspective and Hindu worldview as well but not just Hinduism Please be careful not to confuse the unique practices of particular Hindu sects or groups with that of all of Hinduism. Keep significant aspects of Hinduism significant and insignificant aspects of Hinduism insignificant. Minor Edit - In the 'Pilgrimage' section, subsection 'Kumbh Mela' there needs to be a change of the misspelling 'afetr' to 'after'. -Thanks SlingPro. Idol worship is prohibited per Vedas which should be mentioned. (Yajurveda 32:3; Yajurveda 40:8; Yajurveda 40:9) Minor Edit - Mentioning Nastik School of thought in Hinduism Also explainig, Hindu idea of spiritual plularism, generally a hindu temple in north India has images statues of several deities that shiva, shakti and vishnu in the same temple in addition to local gods. See [1] [2]

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What's the point of an infobox?

Articles for all major religions, such as Islam, Christianity and Sikhism have it. Why cant this page have one too? I have attempted to add, but it gets removed for being "unnecessary". Whats the point of an infobox then? Pharaoh496 ( talk) 12:49, 7 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Indeed, what's the point of an infobox? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 05:18, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

The point of an Help:Infobox is to provide a summary. Your point is illogical. Pharaoh496 ( talk) 06:32, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

WP:OTHERSTUFF. We already have this infobox on Hinduism, which covers all the topics mentioned in the infobox religion. The latter was originally an infobox for Christian denominatins, and is too simple (simplistic) for the complexities ofHinduism; it's simplicity also attracts pov-edits. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:43, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Thats abot articles. No examples on Infoboxes at all.

We make one, add categories applicable, and not add those not applicable. Its simple.

It will take a few score edits to get it right, and then no one will touch it; when it simply has nothing else to be added!

who goes around vandalising random wikiboxes? This should have been a very obvious addition to the article a long time ago anyways Pharaoh496 ( talk) 06:53, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

its an infobox mate. its not a random fact-list or a random laundry list. Pharaoh496 ( talk) 06:54, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

and then no one will touch it -welcome to reality. We already went, for a long period, through a long "score of edits to get it right," including the categories you expect to be added. No need to duplicate an infobox with either incomplete information or simplistic summaries, or a fully developed infobox which will be a replica of the infobox we already have. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:00, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

nuh-uh. What you have here is a series sidebar; with a function to connect various articles. Thats no infobox mate. And theres a limit to what an infobox can have, when you complete it, no one is bothered about it. This is really a full-pro-no-con situation if you add an infobox similar to what other religion articles have. Its not duplicate info, we can shorten it from the main body. Im not saying its a fifteen minute task, but it is one worth taking on Pharaoh496 ( talk) 07:44, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I will start on the infobox tomorrow, please dont revert and if you want to, do contribute. At the atmost maximum, im giving it 10-12 days, after which it will be settled and not subject to pov-edits. Pharaoh496 ( talk) 18:21, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

You can use your sandbox to brew a draft; succes. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 20:37, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Help:Infobox makes abundantly clear what's the problem with Infobox religion:

• Shared aspects:

• "consistently present a summary of some unifying aspect that the articles share"
• "If a lot of different subjects all share a common attribute (for instance, all people have a name and a date of birth), then it is useful to be able to compare these across different pages."
• "Infobox templates contain important facts and statistics of a type which are common to related articles. For instance, all animals have a scientific classification"

• Information from the article:

• "the information should still be present in the main text"
• "Infoboxes, like the introduction to the article, should primarily contain material that is expanded on and supported by citations to reliable sources elsewhere in the article."

Hinduism
Om, a stylized letter of Devanagari script, used as a religious symbol in Hinduism
Type	Universal religion
Territory	Indian Subcontinent
Origin	India

From Template:Infobox religion and your first attempt ( diff) to create an infobox (duplicated at the right):

• Type: unspecified parameter; is there any place at Wikipedia where this is explained? You gave here Universal religion; where does the Hinduism-article say so?
• Territory: unspecified parameter. You gave "Indian subcontinent," but Hindus can be found worldwide.
• Founded place: "location of founding." You gave "India"; is that a "location"? And: the infobox presumes that religions are founded by a founder, but that's not a shared characteristic; Hinduism does not have a single "founder," nor a single "location of founding." For Christianity, it's also a questionable parameter. Infobox religion fails here a basic requirement of infoboxes, namely comparable shared aspects.
• Orientation: "Hinduism" does not have one "orientation"
• Scripture: Hinduism does not have just one single authoritative scripture
• Theology: "main theology" - Hinduism includes a wide range of "theologies"

I could go on here, but the problem is clear: this infobox presumes comparable pieces of information, and is orientated on denominations within a religion, with clear-cut boundaries. Religions do not share the basics presumed here, and are not comparable in such a way, especially not Hinduism, which is a conglomerate of widely diverse religious traditions. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 05:33, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply

My first attempt was a very bad one at making an infobox. I am doing one in my sandbox, and I will surely get back to you. Pharaoh496 ( talk) 06:05, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I'll take a look, thanks. Keep in mind, though, that religions are not comparable the way bugs or planes are comparable. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:22, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Draft

There are some refs on the side, we can discuss what to do with them. I request that you try not to give a dismissive review. Others can join on constructive inputs Pharaoh496 ( talk) 09:27, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Have a look:!

Hinduism
Sanātana Dharmacode: san promoted to code: sa
Shiva (left), Vishnu (middle), and Brahma (right) are the three major deities in Hinduism
Classification	Dharmic
Scripture	Shruti Smriti
Theology	Darshana Krishnology Vaishnavism [1]
Polity	Hindutva
Vishnu	Vaishnavism
Shiva	Shaivism
Shakti	Shaktism
Panchadevata	Smartism
Region	Indian subcontinent
Language	Sanskrit
Liturgy	Puja
Origin	Hindu synthesis: 500 [2]–200 [3] BCE Indus Valley Civilisation
Number of followers	1.2 billion [4]

Pharaoh496 ( talk) 09:24, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply

• Native name: correct, though more names nmay be applicable
• Founding: Hindu synthesis is correct, IVC is widely off the mark
• Region: worldwide
• Dharmic: should be "Indian religions"
• Liturgy: Puja - too limited
• Scripture: shruti and smriti - too limited- - or too general
• Theology - forget it; see alone "Philosophical schools" in the sidebar
• Polity: Hindutva - augh!
• Division: correct, akin to the sidebar - where it is clear that these various traditions; the infobox does this not make clear
• Number of followers: obvious

As I said, Hinduism is so complex, an infobox created for comparing bugs and planes doesn't work. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 11:06, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply

• Region - with that sense in Islam it should be too but it is Muslim world. Thing is this shows the most concentrated place.
• Polity - yea lets bin this
• Scripture - thats the basic type divide
• Liturgy - ill add more

we just skit the sidebar below this Pharaoh496 ( talk) 11:25, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Pharaoh496 Thanks for taking on the effort to do this. As Joshua has said, there are lot of complexities that can come up when doing infobox for Hinduism. Hinduism has "widely diverse religious traditions", as mentioned by Joshua earlier, and I am simply not sure how the infobox will depict that. As we know, within Hinduism, each tradition (and even the same tradition in different region) have their own scriptures (other than the main sacred texts) based on which their tradition differ from others, deities, who they consider as their supreme god, and so on. I feel an Infobox will add lot of confusion to the reader if not done right. But don't want to discourage you here and hope we don't end up with a long infobox. Asteramellus ( talk) 21:56, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Confusion, yes, good phrase. Simple can be too simple; the word "Hinduism" itself is already problematic, since it implies an unity. PS: at second thought, "liturgy" also seems to be a problematic category. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 04:51, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Okay so we can remove all the problematic things… and keep it a very simple one and skid the sidebar below it.

Ill look more for liturgy as well. Pharaoh496 ( talk) 10:02, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Division_type should be Vaishnavism (for example), with division name ISKCON etc. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 11:05, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply

ill just remove the time period also. till then see the remainder Pharaoh496 ( talk) 14:47, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hinduism
Sanātana Dharmacode: san promoted to code: sa
Shiva (left), Vishnu (middle), and Brahma (right) are the three major deities in Hinduism
Classification	Indian religions
Scripture	Shruti Smriti
Theology	Darshana Krishnology Vaishnavism [1]
Vaishnavism	Nimbarka Sampradaya, Sri Vaishnavism, Sadh Vaishnavism, Gaudiya Vaishnavism, Warkari tradition, Ramanandi tradition, Sant Mat,
Shaivism	Pashupata, Śaivasiddhānta, Nayanars, Kashmir Shaivism, Nath, Lingayatism
Region	Indian subcontinent
Language	Sanskrit, English, Indo-Aryan languages, Dravidian languages
Liturgy	Puja Arti
Origin	Hindu synthesis: 500 [2]–200 [3] BCE
Number of followers	1.2 billion [4]

References

Pharaoh496 ( talk) 14:43, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I oppose the inclusion of an infobox as it will either be too simplistic or constantly changed by POV edits. The side bar is already more than enough information needed. Most of the information you can put in the infobox is redundant or overly simplified information from the side bar. There is simply no need for an infobox when the side bar is perfectly adequate. Chariotrider555 ( talk) 15:31, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Good to hear. I've added some info, to show how complicated this infobox will become. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 17:22, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I experienced how complex it can get when I was on Hindu denominations page and that too seems to be missing a lot! I really appreciate the effort, and I also initially thought it's good to have an infobox, but I think it's just way too complex to fit in an infobox. Its really hard to decide what to include and what not to. I read Joshua said earlier - Hinduism... "implies unity" - I guess it's unity in complex web of diversity. Asteramellus ( talk) 22:49, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply

• A sidebar is a complex thing to view at face value. Many of WikiPedia's users are used to have infobox as its there on many pages.
• Currently when you hover on the link of the page you cant see a picture, this solves that.
• I agree there will be POV edits but thats cuz its a new thing and it will die down soon enough. In Long run like all other pages it will only be as bothered as the rest of the page is.
• You can always just put the sidebar below this.
• In the sidebar you basically put the three most important / biggest / significant divisions to make it less complicated. It does not have to be fixed to three, if four are needed we put four.

Its not as complicated Pharaoh496 ( talk) 18:25, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply

In the sidebar you basically put the three most important / biggest / significant divisions to make it less complicated - there you go... As I wrote before, Infoboxes exist to compare shared aspects of similar subjects; that's not the case here. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 18:43, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I can just remove the divisions then for now wait Pharaoh496 ( talk) 13:20, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hinduism
Sanātana Dharmacode: san promoted to code: sa
Shiva (left), Vishnu (middle), and Brahma (right) are the three major deities in Hinduism
Classification	Indian religions
Scripture	Shruti Smriti
Denominations	Sampradayas Vaishnavism
Region	Indian subcontinent
Language	Sanskrit Indo-Aryan languages Dravidian languages
Origin	Hindu synthesis
Number of followers	1.2 billion [1]
Places of worship	Mandir

Pharaoh496 ( talk) 13:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply

The idea of an infobox for this page is a good one, and some productive suggestions have been made. Hang in there! Hemmingweigh ( talk) 13:55, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Cheers mate! Pharaoh496 ( talk) 14:11, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply

And why is it a good idea? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 18:02, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Cuz the suggestions are good man. Check the updated infobox ive shared up Pharaoh496 ( talk) 03:31, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply

That does not seem like a strong argument. The infobox above presents no new information that isn't already in the sidebar, and is an overly-simplistic (and inaccurate) one at that. Chariotrider555 ( talk) 03:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Humour me on whats inaccurate. In the meanwhile there is nothing wrong with a short summary, the infobox literally doing what it exists for, and im not asking you to remove the sidebar Pharaoh496 ( talk) 14:15, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Brahmā is definitely not one of the main deities of Hinduism. Additionly the image itself is a modern print and is not an image that would pertain to Hinduism of every era (Compare it to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, where there are images or symbols that are applicable to the entire history of the religion). You have darshana listed as a theology, but that is not really a theology. You have both Krishnology and Vaishnavism listed as theologies, but both redirect to the same page, but why should only those two theologies be mentioned? Hinduism also does not really have "liturgy", and there is no mention of a Hindu liturgy either on this page or liturgy. Overall the infobox doesn't really fit the structure of Hinduism and any attempts to force it into such a box wouldn't do justice. Note that other Indian religions like Buddhism or Jainism do not have infoboxes. Sikhism does, but it is a more modern and tighly knit faith. Chariotrider555 ( talk) 18:16, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi Pharaoh496, there are some legitimate concerns here, but let me offer some possible solutions to serve as inspiration for your endeavors:

First, some image options of things from Hinduism's past and present for your consideration:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shvetashvatara_Upanishad_verse_1.1,_Sanskrit,_Devanagari_script.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Hindu_temple_at_Annavaram_Andhra_Pradesh.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Diya_and_Food_(15558130038).jpg

As mentioned by other users, categories such as "liturgy" are not very useful here. Here are the categories I do see as useful:

Classification: Indian Religions

Scripture: Shruti, Smruti

Language: Sanskrit

Number of Followers: 1.2 billion

Additionally, I would add "Places of worship: mandirs, tirtha."

I can't imagine a consensus or utility for any of the other categories available. Hope this is useful as you continue to work this out.

Regards, Hemmingweigh ( talk) 13:12, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Updated. Pharaoh496 ( talk) 14:38, 16 February 2024 (UTC) reply

• On Brahma: see Trimurti first 2 lines
• I will remove Krishnology as thats a redirect
• Other people above did not find a fault in liturgy so I will remove that as I agree with you

Pharaoh496 ( talk) 14:29, 16 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Have updated it Pharaoh496 ( talk) 14:38, 16 February 2024 (UTC) reply

See lead for Brahma. Chariotrider555 ( talk) 17:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC) reply

See lead for Trimurti. I shall be taking on more suggestions for the infobox, and then we can finalize.

@ Hemmingweigh@ Joshua Jonathan Pharaoh496 ( talk) 16:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Chariotrider555@ Joshua Jonathan@ Hemmingweigh

Addition

All right folks, adding it on the main page now. Hopefully no backlash. Pharaoh496 ( talk) 12:12, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

And reverted; no consensus whatsoever to this, in any form. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 16:17, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

What are you even wanting?? People give suggestion, I add. People object, I change or remove till they are satisfied for said objection. Then I ask if its okay now, no one responds for weeks. I add, you remove it Pharaoh496 ( talk) 16:28, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

It's clear what I, and a number of other want: not this infobox. I'll explain to you again why: infoboxes are meant to compare, in an easy way, comparable info, like when certain types of cars were first introduced, or the species and families etc. of plants or bugs. Not to simplify very complex topics like world-religions.

And yes, you make suggestions, people object, you make other suggestions, and people stop responding, because it's pointless: we don't want this infobox. Period. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 17:49, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Pharaoh496 I agree with Joshua. As I had mentioned before, I feel Hinduism is way too complex to be simplified for an infobox and it will add confusion to a reader. Better to not add an infobox. Asteramellus ( talk) 02:00, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Joshua Jonathan@ Asteramellus

• You have mentioned multiple times for the complexity for this to be fit inside the small scope of an infobox. I agree, that many can have contrasting opinions on how to use the various prompts of the infobox. In my initial attempts, I added liturgy and theology which was pointed out to be not appropriate for the occasion.
• The main reason I want this added is - what the function of the Help:Infobox is that when a viewer opens a page (the infobox is prevalent on MOST wikis) a basic sense of information on the right and not in the text in between, like main gods/dieties, no.of followers, place of worship, origin etc. I have in no way wanted this to replace the sidebar (except for putting it on top) and the sidebar stays just below it. If possible link the sidebar someplace in the infobox so the viewer is sure to give it a look.
• Another small reason is that this makes sure there is any thumbnail image when you search the page in wikipedia or a search engine, which any image on an infobox can solve.
• Its an opinion for the both of you that an infobox will cause confusion. Its my opinion it will not. We can surely leave it for a test - a couple of days to further see the response on the page.

Despite with the talking points, I am not the only one who desires this change. The main purpose is not for this to be used as a comparison, but simply as a basic info bulletin. I entreat you to carry on with this discussion and simply not stop responding, as I dont think this reduces the value/worth of the page or vandalises it in any point - simply for a positive impact. Until it seemed complex, you did begin to agree with some parameters in it - I think all that needs to be done is deliberate enough to get it right. f you'd like, dont consider the latest infobox as the one which ficially goes on the board.

Though not my primary idea, there are a couple of alternatives which you may agree or object to:

• Neatly put all information from the sidebar here, remove the sidebar from this page while let it remain on other Hinduism related pages.
• Add the infobox, inflate it more and move the sidebar somewhere below in the article
• As I said - semi-parameterize and sidebar below.

Regards. Pharaoh496 ( talk) 11:22, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Help:Infobox (emphasis mine):

An infobox is a fixed-format table usually added to the top right-hand corner of articles to consistently present a summary of some unifying aspect that the articles share

The "basic sense of information" is a simplification. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 12:21, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Please go over my suggestions Pharaoh496 ( talk) 12:27, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

User:Pharaoh496, there is clearly no consensus to add an infobox to this article. I oppose its inclusion for the reasons I and other editors have already stated above. Chariotrider555 ( talk) 06:33, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Well, I tried. Atleast someone consider adding an image above it, or not. I rest here. Pharaoh496 ( talk) 09:00, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

This section used to be buried under "Hindu views", and has now been elevated to a real section on "Definitions". But I don't see any definitions here, just propaganda. Ironically, the section even claims that Hinduism is not "dogma", while propagating precisely dogma. The last paragraph is the only one that makes any sense, and it has nothing to do with "definitions". I think this section should be removed altogether. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 16:13, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I agree. The entire section is propaganda. Chaipau ( talk) 03:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I am fine with removing this section. Thanks, Hemmingweigh ( talk) 05:24, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Also, a dictionary entry for Vaidika is not a proper citation for Vaidika dharma (Another endonym for Hinduism is Vaidika dharma.[web 1])

I think it should be kept; sanathana dharma is a relevant self-designation, after all. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 05:23, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 January 2024 and 17 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alexei Michael ( article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Alexei Michael ( talk) 16:47, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Every other religion page has it 2605:A601:A73D:C800:F5BB:F19F:3BAA:6C67 ( talk) 22:28, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Why don't you read the talkpage? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 04:45, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Buddhism and Jainism have no infobox. Capitals00 ( talk) 07:49, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Nor Shinto and Shaivism. The infobox was designed for Christian denominations, not for organic constellations like Hinduism. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 08:00, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Infoboxes are the bane of Wikipedia. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 22:55, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

this is wrong information if Adam A.S was first person in this world and he was muslim even he was not worshipping and idol then how Hinduism is oldest religion 2001:8F8:1A61:64B0:31BE:C9FB:6B83:77EF ( talk) 01:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC) reply

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Liu1126 ( talk) 01:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC) reply