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Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed
Just like I told you I would review this! --
K. Peake 07:41, 1 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Infobox and lead
I'm not sure if it is appropriate to caption the artwork as the Netherlands single picture sleeve when that release is not mentioned anywhere
Removed - will replace if a suitable source is identified.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 14:41, 1 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The B-side is not sourced anywhere in the body
It looks like the single might only have been released in the Netherlands and in Germany; it's not mentioned in UK/US discographies in books like Krogsgaard's Positively Bob Dylan: A Thirty-Year Discography, Concert and Recording Session Guide, 1960-1991, Hinton's Bob Dylan Complete discography (2006) or Leigh's Bob Dylan: Outlaw Blues (2020). I'll remove from the article, and restore it if a source is found.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 14:37, 1 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Even if the release date and territories are uncertain, can't you at least find a source calling this a single? --
K. Peake 08:07, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Apart from not being in the sources above, it's also not on Olof Bjorner's site, or in Nogowski's Bob Dylan: A Descriptive, Critical Discography and Filmography, 1961-2020. Nogowski states that there were no singles from John Wesley Harding. If I knew where else to look for German or Dutch releases, I would.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 23:04, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Move the audio sample to being in composition and lyrical interpretation instead of the infobox
Moved audio sample to composition section.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 15:12, 5 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"which was first released on his eighth studio album," → "from his eighth studio album," and place the release year in brackets instead
The original 48th ranking on the greatest songs of all time is not sourced
In-line source is stated for the Rolling Stone top 500 list and its year; there was the 2004 list and the 2021 list, both with in-line citations.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 18:47, 1 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I looked and only the 40th ranking is listed in the body, so you need to mention both. --
K. Peake 08:07, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"He has performed "All Along the Watchtower" live more than any of his other songs," → "The singer has performed the song live more than any of his other ones," but none of this sentence appears to be sourced in the body
Amended text. It's based on "critic Michael Gray noted that this is the most often performed of all of Dylan's songs.[68] According to Dylan's own website, by May 2022 he had performed the song 2,268 times.[69]" which may need rewording to clarify.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 14:59, 1 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"was the second single from the album, released on" → "was released as the second single from the album on" and this sentence should be moved somewhere else, as the sub-section is background and recording
Removed as per current lack of sourcing noted above.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 15:01, 1 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Composition and lyrical interpretation
Per the title writing composition first, shouldn't the music sub-section come before the lyrics one?
I would suggest retitling this to Release and reception, then you can move the single release date to the start of the sub-section
See comments aboe about the single release.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 21:29, 3 June 2022 (UTC)reply
You can keep this title with no single release, but shouldn't the album release info be moved here per relevancy? --
K. Peake 09:16, 4 June 2022 (UTC)reply
None of the B-sides or genres listed are sourced in the prose
Added into prose using Shapiro book for citation and linking to Wikipedia article for B-side USA version; British version is quoted on jacket image featured in Infobox (can do formal citation if needed).
ErnestKrause (
talk) 19:11, 1 June 2022 (UTC)reply
You forgot to pipe B-side to
A-side and B-side, unlike the above text seems to imply. --
K. Peake 08:07, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Current version reads: "issued the song as a single on September 2, 1968 with the B-side featuring "Burning of the Midnight Lamp"...". Is that sufficient to identify it?
ErnestKrause (
talk) 16:19, 4 June 2022 (UTC)reply
None of the info is sourced from the Ultimate Classic Rock ref
Changed the refs for this. (Leigh ref is there as Bjorner does not verify that "All Along the Watchtower" was the B-side.)
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 22:13, 3 June 2022 (UTC)reply
"by May 2022 he" → "by November 2018, he" per the source
"goes on to say that "The" → "goes on to say, "The"
Copyvio score looks too high at an estimated 81.2%; cut down the level of direct quoting to fix this
After looking at this in some detail, it appears that the larger portion of this is from mirror sites which have been copying the Wikipedia article sometimes with explicit attribution and sometimes without. The copyvio app gives a general feedback percentage based on aggregate similarity which I do not think is due to defects in the Wikipedia article. They are mirror sites which are copying freely from Wikipedia as an open source.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 14:48, 3 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I did notice that too, but a good portion of this is due to direct quoting from the source at the top. --
K. Peake 09:16, 4 June 2022 (UTC)reply
The quote from the Bible I'm leaving as is without copyvio issues; the other two quotes in that section at the top I've shorten a bit so that they are not too long.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 23:38, 4 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Nice job, we've established the tool is a bit faulty here so slight copyvio match is acceptable! --
K. Peake 06:53, 5 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Given that the American Songwriter article was only published three months ago, I think it's very possible to argue that there was an element of backwards-copying (
WP:BACKWARDSCOPY) involved, if one looks at a version of the Wikipedia article from just before that time period. Given that, I've replaced that source with Van Ronk's book, to avoid possible problems with
WP:CIRCULAR. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 09:52, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Citations
Cites currently updated for entire list below. Should all be integrated.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 20:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)reply
All of them are in harvard cites; retaining only #16 at the end of the paragraph since they all are using the same page.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 14:53, 3 June 2022 (UTC)reply
On hold until all of the issues are fixed; I await your review shortly! --
K. Peake 12:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)reply
ErnestKrause Thanks for getting started on this; when will you have probably implemented these changes by? --
K. Peake 09:42, 3 June 2022 (UTC)reply
That was a pretty thorough review which both co-nominators appreciate. It may take a few more days to complete everything, and we've just located what looks like a cover sleeve for the singles release. It would be nice to do all of these updates in appreciation of your thorough comments.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 13:55, 3 June 2022 (UTC)reply
ErnestKrause I am confident in myself after your appreciation of the review; responding periodically to you is fine for me and I don't mind you taking your own time at all! --
K. Peake 09:16, 4 June 2022 (UTC)reply
ErnestKrause Great job on this, but I would say that you still need to add text about what the audio sample illustrates of the song, add a caption for the certifications table and link B-side to
A-side and B-side. --
K. Peake 20:49, 5 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Benny had a question if you might be able to figure out the copyright issue for the cover jackets already located for the English version and German version of the single, and maybe you can help figure out how to put it into Wikimedia so that Benny could then add it to the article; These are the images already found here:
[1].
[2].
[3].
[4].
ErnestKrause (
talk) 21:08, 5 June 2022 (UTC)reply
BennyOnTheLoose That seems like a decent source, so you could use it for a single release, but I'm not sure how to upload files to Wikimedia without copyright and cover art is not required anyway. --
K. Peake 06:48, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I've made amendments to address the points about what the audio sample illustrates of the song, a caption for the certifications table and linkin for B-side. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 10:11, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
✓Pass now, good job even though I did a bit of copy editing for you! --
K. Peake 20:54, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Kyle Peake: Many thanks, as ever, for your thorough and patient review. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 22:32, 6 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Dylan versions
@
ErnestKrause: I'm a bit confused about your addition:
"In 1974, Dylan recorded and released a studio version of the song on Before the Flood concert which Larry Starr has called Dylan's up-tempo version of the song after listening favorably to the Hendrix version. A third version of the song is identified by Starr as being released on the MTV Unplugged concert recording released in 1995"
as this seems to repeat part of the pre-existing text:
"Dylan has released live recordings of the song on the following albums: Before the Flood (recorded February 1974); Bob Dylan at Budokan (recorded March 1978); Dylan & The Dead (recorded July 1987); and MTV Unplugged (recorded November 1994)."
I'm sure the 1974 release would have had some sort of studio treatment, but I don't think it's a "studio version". Maybe some commentary from Starr can be included, but it would need to be fully cited in the way that the other books referenced are. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 16:19, 2 August 2022 (UTC)reply
BennyOnTheLoose The quote from the new Larry Starr book that I added on your Talk page is: "...'Watchtower' is a brief, compelling, and mysterious song. Its ominous character is captured memorably in the studio version, which utilizes for accompaniment just Dylan's guitar and harmonica... The singing is utterly straightforward, as if recounting a simple parable about the nameless joker and thief; Dylan is not about to disclose a hint of any deeper meaning...", from page 107. If that is useful, then maybe you can find some way to add it into the article. Any duplicated material can be deleted. Of the six Dylan books I've looked at so far, only Starr seems to give any attention to Watchtower.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 16:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)reply
I've removed the duplicate part about the 3 versions from Starr and added his quote about the lyrics to the lyrics section. If it looks ok, then it can be converted to Harvard cites format. Also there seems to be a problem with cites made to Gray;2002 in the book sources which I can't quite figure out, in the print out in the last paragraph of the Lyrics section. I've also added a short quote from the 2021 Cambridge University Press anthology on Dylan titled The World of Bob Dylan. If it looks ok, then it can be converted to Harvard cites format as well.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 00:08, 3 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Also fixed the Harvard cites in the lyrics section I just mentioned above.
ErnestKrause (
talk) 00:30, 3 August 2022 (UTC)reply